Mar 2018: Chocobo Forest - Revision history

Pascal at 20:26, 5 July 2019

2019-07-05T20:26:02Z

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			**Chocobo Forest has been reworked since this review.

	[[Category:Area of the Month]]		[[Category:Area of the Month]]

Sunflash at 17:31, 11 November 2018

2018-11-11T17:31:32Z

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	[[Category:Area of the Month\|*]]		[[Category:Area of the Month]]

Pascal at 14:19, 9 April 2018

2018-04-09T14:19:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:19, 9 April 2018
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	creatures drinking from the water. A river crossing made up of solid white		creatures drinking from the water. A river crossing made up of solid white
	((Why can't I drink the water? Other rooms describe it as being pristine and pure.))		((Why can't I drink the water? Other rooms describe it as being pristine and pure.))

	*Chocobo Mountain - Cliff Wall
	~~((A mob in this room has a "is in perfect condition." line when it shouldn't.))~~

	*Choco Falls - East Side		*Choco Falls - East Side
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	is lined with a series of protusions which should allow safe descent;*		is lined with a series of protusions which should allow safe descent;*
	((Not that anything has had any extra descriptions in this zone, but it'd be nice to know what those protusions are that I can climb down. Erm, I mean *protrusions.))		((Not that anything has had any extra descriptions in this zone, but it'd be nice to know what those protusions are that I can climb down. Erm, I mean *protrusions.))

	*Post-Dislodge Quest
	~~Fatty C says 'Redmage "Redmage"'~~
	~~((I heard you the first time.))~~

	*After Recalling with Choco present at any time		*After Recalling with Choco present at any time
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	((Post-Mene Quest Choco no longer seems to be afraid of fighting. It can now be a useless follower, yay!))		((Post-Mene Quest Choco no longer seems to be afraid of fighting. It can now be a useless follower, yay!))

	*Yellow chocobo description
	~~spark of intelligence missing from its chicken cousin,~~
	~~((Since when were chocobos related to chickens?))~~

	*Red chocobo description
	~~Its blazing crimson feathers designate it as a rare, but aggressive, breed of chocobo, with a oooked beak a similar but darker color.~~
	~~((Wow, even with copy/pasted descriptions, he still managed to type oooked.))~~
	~~Its eyes are aggressively dominant and intelligent, and there is a spark of great power, barely held in check.~~
	~~((I don't understand this sentence. Are its eyes holding back sparks of great power? With great power comes great aggressive dominance and intelligence?))~~

	*Aspik description		*Aspik description

Pascal at 03:39, 7 April 2018

2018-04-07T03:39:55Z

@@ Line 148: / Line 148: @@
 Under Descriptions, I will list all of the typos/bad Engrish I've encountered while minimizing potential spoilers. I'll be posting only partial room descriptions to point these things out. Attractions has some problems too. Some of my comments are maked by ((parenthesis)).
 '''Descriptions/Problems: 1/10'''
 >talk breeder
@@ Line 192: / Line 158: @@
    You think 'I've got the feathers you wanted!'
 ((This line showed up the first time I talked to him then mysteriously disappeared the second time, strange.))
 *Chocobo Forest - Riverside Path

Sunflash at 16:40, 30 March 2018

2018-03-30T16:40:02Z

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	'''Player: Alyse Wizard/39 no remort		'''Player: Alyse Wizard/39 no remort - Token'd

	'''Review Date: March 2018'''		'''Review Date: March 2018'''

Sunflash at 20:24, 29 March 2018

2018-03-29T20:24:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:24, 29 March 2018
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	'''Player: Kolem (Various, primarily Playback L. 22 Dancer)'''		'''Player: Kolem (Various, primarily Playback L. 22 Dancer)''' - Token'd.

	'''Review Date(s): 3/23/18 '''		'''Review Date(s): 3/23/18 '''

Kolem at 07:06, 24 March 2018

2018-03-24T07:06:54Z

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			'''Player: Kolem (Various, primarily Playback L. 22 Dancer)'''

			'''Review Date(s): 3/23/18 '''

			Well, here we go. I haven't been looking forward to this, but sometimes that just means it's more necessary. Having read through the other reviews, I am going to do my best to focus on suggestions for improvement in areas that have not been extensively covered already, and thanks everyone for tackling this particular zone. It always stinks when a less than stellar area is up for review, because I have a harder time being negative than positive. But Chocobo Forest seems to fall into a contentious area: A lot of effort has gone into improving it already, and some are so frustrated they suggest just wiping it entirely. I don't feel that's quite needed, here; this is no Zork or old-version Lelanol. But I'll discuss this further in the personal section.

			As always, I begin each category at Five, with generalized positives and negatives swaying the score higher or lower as needed. Exceptionally poor or wonderful examples may merit points on their own.


			'''Descriptions: 4/10'''


			There have been countless detailed descriptions of the many issues with the descriptions in prior reviews. In order to avoid beating a zombie horse, I will say that most descriptions are technically functional but poorly implemented. There are very few look commands other than those utilized to hide specific areas, and since there are no non-consequential look commands, the area feels very hollow and the areas are easily discovered. I am going to ding one point for general poor implementation, but I have seen (much, much) worse.


			'''Balance: 3/10 '''


			Here is where I start to feel like the real problems of the Chocobo Forest come in to play, and as previous reviews have not really gone into extreme depth with the issues here, it's where I'm going to be focusing a fair bit of my attention.

			-Let's start with the items. Specifically, the lack thereof, and the imbalance on the items that exist in the zone. (This will tie in to the Attractions section shortly.) One of the primary quests in this location is to kill chocobos until at least three drop specific items--feathers corresponding to the color of chocobo in question. Given the low numbers of those mobs present and the general disapproval of the quest on Kill X Mob quests to start wish, this is an issue in and of itself. But the real issue I'm taking with this is that for some reason the dropped items are all one shot wands-and NONE of them are on level. Two are below, and one is above. It's straight up baffling. Additionally, the one store sells held items that grant either swim or float. You can get one of the two nearby if you're investigative, but by level twenty, the player will have had plenty of opportunities to get swim vehicles or equipment regardless of starting town. Purchasing float in any equipment slot is NICE, technically, but held is a very competitive spot--giving up a shield, weapon, or other bonus, to say nothing of two handed weapons. The quest reward items are also underwhelming, with one exception (which I will discuss in Attractions). Dead Peppers are ripe for change, as well; there is no reason not to make them an interesting pill and not unique.

			-Moving on from the items, let's discuss the early-zone mobs. Playing as a level twenty two dancer, defeating yellow, red, and green chocobos was fairly effortless. I recall Sky Armor being rough, and I grasp WHY these mobs are so weak, but there are other problems: Their low drop rate, the fact that they apparently award half experience if that, and complete lack of money, for starters. Aspiks were also a complete breeze. Given the nature of the farming quest this is particularly egregious. Even the reward for collecting all the feathers is outshone in general by various consumables obtainable elsewhere.

			Starting at 5 points:

			-1 for all items being level inappropriate
			-1 for mobs which are not built to challenge on-level players

			The boss and sky armors, as I recall, are somewhat rough; but gated behind float.


			'''Attractions: 5/10'''


			This is something of a difficult call. The upshot of the final portion of the quest here is that you can obtain any one of the chocobos as a pet--and they are surprisingly decent pets, for the level they are. However, players will need to be a higher level than the pets to obtain them, and there is considerable competition for the Pet / Companion slot as it is. They all lack wander-home progs, as well. I go into some alternatives in the closing section, but alone--as fun as flavorful having a Chocobo is, and as nice as them all having 'moves' are is, alone that can't balance the consequences of the rest of the zone. I will give the zone credit for attempting it, though. Chocobo forest is a terrible place to grind; with few monsters to challenge and fewer rewards. The one shop could use considerable tweaking. Additionally, it feels like the Item you get as a result of defeating the boss ought to have better implementation outside of its zone of origin. There are definite missed possibilities here.

			Beginning at five points:
			-plus one and a half points for an attempt at a full pet subcategory, which must have took concerted effort to pull off
			-Minus half a point for poor implementation of said mobs as pets
			-Minus one for the complete lack of valuable treasure, experience, and other rewards from the zone apropos to level

			Final score of this category is Five: It is tolerable, in this area, but any number of small or large adjustments or additions could really improve matters.


			'''Connections: 2.5/10 '''


			Oh. Oh dear. The issue with Chocobo forest is this:

			Chocobo Forest has all of one connection point. None of its items have major or minor consequences outside, even though in all fairness it seems like its quest item is the exact sort of item that could or should have small easter eggs or benefits used outside of its initial introduction. While its foresty introduction fits OKAY I GUESS with the outside, the complete mishmash of areas it itself is means it could technically be linked any sort of place, and I try to not give extra credit for bare minimums. This is a pity, but I would suggest focusing on improving the rest of the areas first--it has enough need for retools and improvement that improving linkage can take a back seat. This is a pity, as I go into in the personal section.

			'''Personal'''

			Whoof. Just... whoof. The problem with Chocobo forest is that the effort is SHOWING. There is a very hard=pressed debate currently over whether to nuke or improve the zone, since there has been a lot of effort into the zone already to improve it from its initial drop into the cleft, and it sounds like those improvements have started to take hold. I am never in favor of a complete gutting of a zone unless it is completely beyond the pale, and I do not think Chocobo Forest as it is now is in that territory.

			It just needs several passes and improvements. That probably isn't anything the imms want to hear, but there are opportunities inherent to Chocobo Forest that it would be criminal not to take advantage of.

			FINAL SCORE:

			Averaging four categories, Chocobo Forest gets an approximate '''3.5 / 10''' -- a score that is not beyond reach, but speaks out for significant need for improvements.

			Therefore in the interest of working toward a better, brighter cleft and Chocobo Forest, I will make some suggestions for improvement, from the least to most effort intensive on the part of the imms.

			--An Item and fetch quest Rebalance and reconsideration.
			There is no reason to gate the Fetch reward as it is. In fact, it is generally a lackluster item. I would suggest Chocobos 'disappear'--
			leaving a feather behind in their haste to escape. Whether these feathers remain wands or not is still up for evaluation; certainly some level
			or spell adjustment is needed. I would suggest changing them from mediocre protective or offensive spells to utility items, if this avenue is
			taken.

			--General redescing mobs and areas in a more cohesive, collective fashion. No one likes to do this, but the zone does need it. Refer to other reviews for specific trouble spots.

			--Reevaluating mob drop rates, spawn frequencies, and rewards.

			Now for some tougher suggestions:

			--Reevaluate whether Chocobos should be pets. There are two broad categories of idea I have for these birds, owing to their origin: One, if these mobs are to continue to exist as is, append a "ranch quest" to the end of the current questline wherein Caught chocobos follow you into a 'ranch' type area, where they will mill about and offer to follow the player not as a pet but a follower. Given the approximate level of the zone, it is a fantastic opportunity to teach players the mechanics of followers that are not pets. Refer to the Runaway Five for similar examples of this; this would mean fetching a chocobo and ensuring it stay with you via Gather wands or scrolls, which could be sold here, could be fantastic training for certain late-game rewards. Given the relatively low strength of individual chocobos, this is unlikely to break anything in any major way. Alternatively, a reward of an reusable cooldown event Chocobo Call for temporary assistance from a random bird would be a cool, flavorful addition that would be considerably more compact and random enough to be engaging.

			The second idea is that, for each breed of Chocobo caught and returned, the player could have a transport to a specific nearby location in the
			cleft corresponding to the Chocobos in question: Mandala for Green Chocobo, for instance; Rocket Town for Yellow Chocobo, etc. This would improve both the area's linkage and attractions, and it could be expanded through the use of the major quest reward to chocobos present outside this zone, such as the Chocobos on Luon Highway--a quick way to hop back to viorar if your recall was not set there--or the Kakkara Desert chocobo.

			I know this is a bit of an ask, but Chocobo forest is too nice a source material to waste, imo. Given the diverse nature of the cleft, it's no shock seeing these creatures find a place in it.


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	[[Category:Area of the Month\|*]]		[[Category:Area of the Month\|*]]

DuskGonzales: Added Cross' Review

2018-03-23T01:13:10Z

Added Cross' Review

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 22 March 2018
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	Of note, if you do happen to die in the swim or float areas, you either need assistance to retrieve your corpse or you have to necro your corpse, unless you can float or swim naturally.		Of note, if you do happen to die in the swim or float areas, you either need assistance to retrieve your corpse or you have to necro your corpse, unless you can float or swim naturally.

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			'''Player: Alyse Wizard/39 no remort

			'''Review Date: March 2018'''


			'''Descriptions 1/10'''

			While some things can certainly be overlooked, it is hard to ignore the abundance of issues in Chocobo Forest with the writing. It is littered with typos, awkward grammatical errors, bland and lacking in substance, minimal with extra descriptions, as well as full of useless repetitive ideas used in order to make the rooms appear more fleshed out at first glance out than they actually are. Sometimes they are even unclear in what idea they are trying to portray as some of the writing can allow for misinterpretation. There are even inconsistencies between the room descriptions and the exits.

			The room descriptions sometimes talk about the mobs that are in the area rather than the scenery and provide information that the player may not or should not know. For example many times it assumes that the player entering knows about chocobos, sometimes referring to their calls, signs, and smells but giving no description to exactly what any of those are like. While we can assume many of our players might have some familiarity with games we can't assume they have knowledge of all the content within the cleft or remember everything about the games they played, even when it comes to popular titles.

			More than once you can encounter places described as 'serene' or 'grimdark' which basically tell the player how they should be feeling about the area when time could be better spent setting the stage to show these things. 'You' also makes an appearance here more than once. This would be fine if the player was reading a Choose Your Own Adventure book, but it doesn't belong in a room description for a MUD. The area description should have no control over the player and should not be addressing the player in any way.

			NPCs when spoken to have weird random spacing in their dialogue and bombard the player with repetitive says for just about every single sentence with nothing like even a sigh, pause, or smile to break it up. When looked at, players are presented with their back story, or in the case of the chocobo's descriptions a copied and pasted description with no difference or variation aside from the bird's color.

			The only positive about the descriptions is that the use of color in some places is done well. Particularly when you are in a place obscured by fog.



			'''Balance 6/10'''

			Hopefully any pets the player has are not important to them or difficult to get because in order to do half the quests in this area they will have to be dismissed. This also goes for the pets you gain from the area itself as the Flying Armor will sometimes make itself the player's pet rather than attacking the player.

			The mobs seem to be decently balanced, and each are slightly different from one another as far as attacks go. The green chocobos assist each other which came as a surprise, and the red ones were appropriately aggressive by comparison to the others (even though getting slapped by stars seemed kind of silly for an attack).

			There isn't a whole lot to fight here though, making the place feel kind of empty and devoid of life. Save for the Aspik and the flying armor, the only things moving about the area are chocobos and they are not very plentiful in number, having only two mobs of each type wandering through each sub area. It is not a good place to level because of it. It makes it a pain when trying to collect a specific drop and produces a problem for players who enter the area at the minimum level requirement as some of the items in the area are level locked. Many will have to venture elsewhere or else deal with a slow and drawn out level grind.

			The area's final 'boss' really wasn't much of a boss. It did nothing to attack or defend itself for most rounds of fighting. While it eventually cast rainbow before it died it basically just amounted to the player hacking at it until it is out of hp making it no real challenge or threat.

			For the area's level, the reward for the last quest on the list is passable, but not particularly exciting. The reward in completing Choco's quest and dealing with the obstruction is either not working correctly, is not well explained, or has a ridiculous level requirement (I am 9 levels past the maximum level recommended for the area and still unable to use it).

			Players entering this area better hope they brought some money with them for the shop because the mobs here are sparse and do not drop any amount of gold or silver when they are killed. This isn't a huge issue though, as Wutai and its bank is just around the corner and easy enough to go back to when a player needs funds.



			'''Attractions 2/10'''

			There are also a lot of missed opportunities to add features such as mining, fishing or mini games to make the area more fun to explore. Especially since there is a lot of waiting involved in the area.

			*Talked to the friend of a Chocobo?

			There is not much to comment on about this quest as it just involves finding and talking to an NPC. It is simple enough, and not uncommon to see goals like this in some areas. You will have to wait before continuing on to the next quest on the list however. And while waiting for a quest isn't so bad, forcing the player to wait is used a bit too much in this area.

			*Discovered the truth behind the legend?

			This quest is a repetitive, dull game of hot and cold. While the idea itself isn't bad it wasn't very well executed. The quest goes as follows;

			Talk to Mene and take Choco → Enter a special room→ Talk to Choco → wait → exit room → wait again → Repeat

			The repetition wouldn't be so bad if there was some variation in the text. For example, Mene reacts by having to catch his breath and saying the exact same thing every time the player returns. While it is understandable the moogle could be startled by the appearance of the player and Choco suddenly appearing the first time, it doesn't make as much sense the 3rd or 4th time it happens. By then Mene should be expecting it to happen by that point.

			The waiting is also a bit annoying with the frequency in which it happens. Not only do you have to wait on Choco after finding each chest, but you have to wait again for Mene to talk to him regarding his new abilities. As mentioned in the Balance portion of the review, there really isn't a whole lot of things to do in the area during this downtime, and there is no indication as to just how long the downtime is.

			Part of what makes this quest so boring and tedious is a lack of variation when it comes to finding the locations of the treasure. All save for one can be found in rooms hidden only by extra descriptions. And by the time players get to this quest (Particularly those used to looking for hidden things in descriptions) they have likely already found all of these spots negating the need to even play the mini game with Choco in the first place. It isn't a far jump in logic to assume hidden places that have nothing in them are connected with finding the treasure chests for this quest.

			Some variation could go a long way and provide players with a little more challenge as they work their way through this quest. For example instead of only leaving the treasure in a hidden room (or completely out in the open at the end of the route as the last one is) What about putting them behind a puzzle, or placed at a seemingly random spot along the path that the player has walked past a dozen times? There is no increase in difficulty or challenge in locating them and it is the the same gimmick every time. The only obstacle getting in the way of the player is the wait time and traveling from point A to point B.

			*Dislodged an obstruction?

			Something tells me there needs to be a talk about maturity. While Chocobo Forest's other quests are bland with room for improvement, this one just ends up being flat out juvenile and inappropriate. The fat jokes, the boss's death line of “I'm a pretty princess, dammit!”, and the matter of both the player and reward being defecated from a bird's ass really isn't in the spirit of the source material. It's degrading to the player. Hopefully no one going through this part of the quest wanted to leave it with any degree of dignity. The only suggestion that can be made here is to just get rid of the entire thing.

			*Finished a stupid fetch quest?

			When an area calls its own quest stupid, it is basically telling the player they are not in for anything fun. You are basically required to collect feathers from different types of chocobo which may or may not be so easy to do as there are only 2 of each chocobo type and the drop is random. It is not particularly exciting or interesting.

			There are a lot of ways the 'Collect 20 Bear Asses' trope could be avoided. A possible way to make the quest more engaging and maybe a little less frustrating to players who just have poor luck would be to make obtaining the feathers more of a puzzle. Maybe each type of chocobo needs something and the player has to figure out how to help them in order to get the feather. It would even potentially make use of the breeder's hut and shop and maybe open up the possibilities in adding features to the surroundings.



			'''Connections 4/10'''

			The location is not the best nor the worst. It can be found roughly in a spot of similar leveled locations but at the same time it could go somewhere else if it needed and nothing would be lost. The only reference it makes in relation to its place in the world is a description mentioning Wutai in the distance. While it is tucked away in the corner of the continent, making it a little more hidden would be more fitting to the original content. It feels like an optional area.



			'''Personal'''

			I do not know why this area was linked. Even now after a number of immortals have combed through it and fixed things it still looks like a mess. Maybe it is less so than when first introduced to the players, but it is still a place I would consider low in quality and not one I would recommend unless an overhaul was done for the entire thing.

			Though not as demanding of attention as the balance or the mechanics, descriptions are an important part of the game. And that was one of my biggest disappointments here. Descriptions create a setting and tone for the player as they venture through each of the zones as well as provide important clues for the quests and puzzles they are to solve. They are what give the area life and personality. Most MUDs out there do not use their descriptions they way the Cleft does. It is something that the game prides itself upon when comparing it to other games out there so this is why the writing for an area should never be overlooked, its typos never brushed aside, and its inaccuracies and other flaws ignored.

			It is understandable to find a hiccup or two within an area and overlook something. But there are just so many problems here with the writing that it lessens the experience. It is kind of embarrassing to present this area to future players who might see these and develop an impression on the game and what is acceptable building standards based on them.

			There is potential to improve on it and make it a decent and even interesting. I am not suggesting it is so bad that it cannot be salvaged. It felt like there were a lot of missed opportunities to do something neat with the place. Rewrite and edit a large chunk of the descriptions, add more things to look at and see, clean up the weird quirks in the dialogue, add more mobs and this area, and completely drop everything beyond the boulder and would not be so bad. While it has improved since its first release, it still needs a lot of work and attention.

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Sunflash: Token note added to Poochie.

2018-03-20T14:49:10Z

Token note added to Poochie.

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	'''Player: Poochie(Geomancer/27)'''		'''Player: Poochie(Geomancer/27)''' - Token'd

	'''Review Date(s): 3/16/18'''		'''Review Date(s): 3/16/18'''

Pascal at 02:33, 17 March 2018

2018-03-17T02:33:59Z

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 ''Final Observation: It looked like Ademisk was pretty good with the combat from the source material and I wouldn't mind seeing him in charge of designing possible action heavy events in the future. Just leave the creativity to someone else.''
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 [[Category:Area of the Month|*]]